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Conditions for approval required by: Julien Gauther
Certification of Aerospace Products to international quality Standards
Certification of Aerospace Products to international quality Standards
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At the beginning of website page, it is written:
“NATO CAGE NO: CF119
Applicant’s internal company reference:
EN2874-050 & -160
Date of Application: 5 Dec 2017”
Could we replace “EN2874-050 & -160” by “EN2874-050 to -140”?
JOHANN MAIER (JM below) has no NADCAP accreditations for HT, MTL and NDT. How are special processes followed?
Protokolle-EN2874H050036:
Page 9/28: If I well understand, 28 parts have been tested for dimensional control and for Acceptance. Mfg batch size is 220 EN2874H050036 bolts.
As per ISO9154 table 3, we have some dimensions with AQL = 1,0% (shank diameter and grip length for instance).
So, we should have 50 parts to be checked for dimensions with AQL = 1%.
Indeed, we have a down arrow marked against 151 to 280 production batch size for AQL = 1% in ISO9154, table 4.
Why do we have 28 parts checked? This sample size does not match with any sample size required by ISO9154, table 4.
Page 10/28: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 5 – 0,022 = 4,978 mm
d max = 4,978 – 0,025 = 4,953 mm instead of 5 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 4,953 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
Page 22/28: What is the speed in kN/min?
Protokolle-EN2874H060034:
Page 12/41: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 6 – 0,022 = 5,978 mm
d max = 5,978 – 0,025 = 5,953 mm instead of 6 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 5,953 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
Page 29/41: What is the speed in kN/min?
Protokolle-EN2874H080040:
Page 10/34: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 8 – 0,028 = 7,972 mm
d max = 7,972 – 0,025 = 7,947 mm instead of 8 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 7,947 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for afurther production batches.
Protokolle-EN2874H100042:
Page 13/34: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 10 – 0,028 = 9,972 mm
d max = 9,972 – 0,025 = 9,947 mm instead of 10 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 9,947 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
Protokolle-EN2874H120036:
Page 13/37: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 12 – 0,034 = 11,966 mm
d max = 11,966 – 0,025 = 11,941 mm instead of 12 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 11,941 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches. Indeed, 11,941 is mentioned in page 11.
Protokolle-EN2874H140012:
Page 14/41: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 14 – 0,034 = 13,966 mm
d max = 13,966 – 0,025 = 13,941 mm instead of 14 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 13,941 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
“QTR_EN-2874-Family-rev-d-1” document shall be modified to take into account remarks done above.
Many thanks in advance and feel free to contact me if some clarifications are needed.
Johann Maier (JM below) and Heinrich Hackmann answers (July 23rd 2019 and July 24th 2019):
At the beginning of website page, it is written:
“NATO CAGE NO: CF119
CAGE CODE: CF119
Applicant’s internal company reference:
EN2874-050 & -160
Replace -160 by -140
Date of Application: 5 Dec 2017”
Is corrected to 11.Juli 2019
Could we replace “EN2874-050 & -160” by “EN2874-050 to -140”?
Agree
JOHANN MAIER has no NADCAP accreditations for HT, MTL and NDT. How are special processes followed?
NADCAP Approval is not required. ISO 9100 Accreditation is sufficient.
Protokolle-EN2874H050036:
Page 9/28: If I well understand, 28 parts have been tested for dimensional control and for Acceptance. Mfg batch size is 220 EN2874H050036 bolts.
As per ISO9154 table 3, we have some dimensions with AQL = 1,0% (shank diameter and grip length for instance).
So, we should have 50 parts to be checked for dimensions with AQL = 1%.
Indeed, we have a down arrow marked against 151 to 280 production batch size for AQL = 1% in ISO9154, table 4.
Why do we have 28 parts checked? This sample size does not match with any sample size required by ISO9154, table 4.
Comment JM:
The total Batch size was 208 parts
According ISO 9154 AQL1 the sample size 50 parts allows c=1 defective part
The sampling plan of JM does work with c=0 (Zero acceptance Number Sampling plan)
(Equal of greater protection)
Julien Gauther question: Does JM use ASQ H1331 “Zero Acceptance Number Sampling Plans Fifth Edition” (“C=0 sampling plans”)?
If it is the case, JM sampled 28 parts instead of 29. Anyway, we have just 1 part missing for dimensional check and it does not really matter.
JM’s answer:
we are using the ASQ H1331 “Zero Acceptance Number Sampling Plans Fifth Edition”
Indeed, I have to check, why we have only 28 parts instead of 29 parts. If necessary
we have to modify our Sampling plan.
In the case of the qualification 28 Parts are sufficient. Please see ISO 9154 – 4.2
Page 10/28: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874,
Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 5 – 0,022 = 4,978 mm
d max = 4,978 – 0,025 = 4,953 mm instead of 5 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 4,953 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
Comment JM:
We will modify our technical requirements to avoid any problems for future batches
Page 22/28: What is the speed in kN/min?
Comment JM:
The Tensile test is done according to ISO 7961
The rate for load is 14kN/min.
Protokolle-EN2874H060034:
Page 12/41: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 6 – 0,022 = 5,978 mm
d max = 5,978 – 0,025 = 5,953 mm instead of 6 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 5,953 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
Comment JM:
We will modify our technical requirements to avoid any problems for future batches
Page 29/41: What is the speed in kN/min?
Comment JM:
The Tensile test is done according to ISO 7961
Protokolle-EN2874H080040:
Page 10/34: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 8 – 0,028 = 7,972 mm
d max = 7,972 – 0,025 = 7,947 mm instead of 8 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 7,947 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for afurther production batches.
Comment JM:
We will modify our technical requirements to avoid any problems for future batches
Protokolle-EN2874H100042:
Page 13/34: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 10 – 0,028 = 9,972 mm
d max = 9,972 – 0,025 = 9,947 mm instead of 10 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 9,947 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
Comment JM:
We will modify our technical requirements to avoid any problems for future batches
Protokolle-EN2874H120036:
Page 13/37: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 12 – 0,034 = 11,966 mm
d max = 11,966 – 0,025 = 11,941 mm instead of 12 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 11,941 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches. Indeed, 11,941 is mentioned in page 11.
Comment JM:
We will modify our technical requirements to avoid any problems for future batches
Protokolle-EN2874H140012:
Page 14/41: Thread major diameter “d max” shall be equal to D1 min – 0,025 as per EN 2874, Figure 1, note 1.
D1min = 14 – 0,034 = 13,966 mm
d max = 13,966 – 0,025 = 13,941 mm instead of 14 mm.
Actual values measured for major diameter are in line with d max = 13,941 mm if I am not mistaken, but the right d max shall be implemented for further production batches.
Comment JM:
We will modify our technical requirements to avoid any problems for future batches
“QTR_EN-2874-Family-rev-d-1” document shall be modified to take into account remarks done above.
Many thanks in advance and feel free to contact me if some clarifications are needed.
JM’s comment: Reply